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Will The Co-op School Bring More Police to Putnam?

February 24, 2009

One person went on in the comments section about how this school and the charter school on Waverly would bring more parents to Fulton street…I mean yeah two new schools in the neighborhood would bring a NOTICEABLE amount of more parents traveling Fulton street than the parents who currently take their kids to the various schools, nurseries/daycares and babysitters daily in the area. Right…if the current parents are invisible, that is…

 

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29 Comments leave one →
  1. Upset Mother permalink
    February 24, 2009 9:03 pm

    I for one do not see the correlation between the two. As you noted, there are already several schools / youth organizations within that area, why does one think that 2 more schools will add additional police? I think you hit it right on the mark. We don’t count?! It really doesn’t matter to brownstoner that there are already numerous parents picking up & dropping off their children in this area. I believe that certain people really don’t see us as people. They look through me & my children as if we do not exist as we pass them on the streets; act as if my children are non-existent in their eyes. I see it, I feel it. I wonder if the school that was set to occupy the Irving Pl. space was not targeted to a specific demographic, would the same sentiment apply…doubt it.
    I’d also like to say I’m surprised by the lack of comments this has generated…this is what they think of us. They put it all out there for us to see. It scares me because they are raising children in the very same neighborhood that I raise mine, which means the level of disrespect and the same warped sense of thinking will continue to manifest. It will never change.

  2. wasder permalink
    February 24, 2009 10:08 pm

    Hey BK–picking this up from Brownstoner yesterday…I don’t know why Brownstoner chose to emphasize police presence in conjunction with a school opening, but giving him the benefit of the doubt (as I will) I think the bigger part is that this will be a very active school with a big influence on the neighborhood. I moved here from Clinton and Lafayette last October and since I have been here that school building has been a real eyesore and a place where trash gathers. The Co-op School is a school where there is real community activism and energy in the parent body and as such I feel confident will bring a lot of needed life to a corner of the neighborhood that could use it. I really wasn’t trying to nitpick your comments but wondering to myself whether or not you were letting Brownstoner’s odd choice of words color your overall analysis of this situation. I think this school opening where it is opening is a win win for everyone and I hope you don’t harbor any negative feelings towards me over this.

  3. bknesto permalink
    February 24, 2009 10:52 pm

    Listen how active is a school that I’ve never heard of?! It’s active to the parents the pay the thousands of dollars to attend. This is the attitude that’s pervasive among a lot of new folks in the neighborhood. That they or everything they’re involved with will be a godsend to the neighborhood. For me and the MANY like me in the hood, this school is just another among the many in the area that already exist.

    I could give a shit if you give brownstoner the benefit of the doubt, I’ve seen plenty of sideways posts on that site as well as others to know the source of which comments like this come from. And the sentiments of these comments are bigger than what you make them out to be when people live amongst each other. I give PutnamDenizen props for being the only ONE to address it. So you keep singing the same song while I’ll be whistling piss at the divisive comments being made by people who moved to my neighborhood. I mean give me a fucking break..this school with have a BIG influence in the neighborhood?! For who?! And before someone accuses me I have nothing against this school.

    Upset Mom, THANK YOU for your comments, people will swear up and down some of us are deaf, dumb and blind when it come to these things and we’re imagining. Or try to sugarcoat it while being cowardly and not addressing the issue or the feelings people have about the people they live around. They just dont get it. I think one day I’m going to do a post about all the sideways shit that has been said when it comes to neighborhood.

    The divide continues…

  4. wasder permalink
    February 24, 2009 11:24 pm

    Hey–I feel like we are talking over each other and not to each other on this point. I completely agree with what Putnam Denizen said on brownstoner about the possibility that there was a racial implication to the notion that police presence would increase with the school. I know Jon a little and I don’t think that is what he meant but I do agree that it sent a wrong message and a dischordant note on an issue that didn’t have to be presented that way. And when I say the school will be positive for the neighborhood I am specifically (very specifically referring to the area around the school (Putnam/Irving) where we really could use some more street life.

    BK, I have met you and talked to you on the street before as I used to live right next to you. I have many times defended your position on things like the Mirrors issue or other matters of the cultural divide. I see my neighbors and appreciate them no matter what their skin color. Please try to see what I am saying as a parent who is excited about a new school on my street. And this school is very community minded–it is a co-operative school where all the parents are obligated to be involved. Its a very cool school with children of all races and colors.

    Anyway, I would hate to end up on the opposite side of this issue from you because I think we agree more than we disagree. I think your blog is one of the more important voices in this community specifically because it does bring together voices from many sides of our diverse community. Peace!

  5. bknesto permalink
    February 25, 2009 1:37 am

    First off if you’re referring to the guys selling shirts, that wasn’t me. I know my friend was telling ppl he was bknesto so I don’t think you’ve met me. I haven’t lived on clinton ave in ten years.

    Secondly regardlesss of who you’ve met or if you know bstoner, to act like like ppl don’t harbor or internalize feelings that later seep out behind the comfortable confines of a computer monitor is naive. If you don’t do this, fine but to act act like rhetoric spewled throughout the forums/blogs over the years doesn’t hint of classism and dare say racism is dishonest and cowardly. You keep going on about this damn school, the school only benefits the parents and children who have thousands of dollars for tuition. That aint community based my man. It’s a select socioeconomic base from this neighborhood that will be sending their kids to the school. So it’s good for YOU (which is fine by the way). Just like brownstoners flea market isn’t community based like some like to claim. It’s a business venture. And since you want to speak for him then answer my whole reason for making this post. What do you think was meant by it? What were the sentiments behind these feelings?

    Ask some of your immediate neighbors that don’t own homes if they feel this school will bring so much to the community. If you can see through there invisibilty…

  6. wasder permalink
    February 25, 2009 1:33 pm

    Well I wish you hadn’t gone to the “invisible” place because if I am anything it is open and friendly to the people I meet. I spend a lot of time on Putnam Ave and talk to all kinds of people when I walk by, including the old timers who sit by the auto shop. I also know my neighbors up and down my block. We all are excited to have something go in that space because it has been abandoned. Of course I am particularly excited because my daughter will attend the school and be able to walk there, but that is a personal matter. Again, I am personally sorry that the issue of “police presence” came up here because it is not relevant but please don’t make assumptions about who I am.

    And you should tell your friend with the T-shirts not to claim to be you any more. Its confusing. Anyway, again I wish you peace and I will continue to follow your blog because I enjoy reading it. Thanks for what you bring to world of blogging and I hope we get to meet in person some time to discuss this stuff further.

  7. wasder permalink
    February 25, 2009 1:37 pm

    And to address what you asked me about what Brownstoner meant, I would only say that he has done a lot of coverage on the shootings at Grand and Putnam and therefore sees a lot of issues in that area through that particular lens. I can’t possibly speak for him about this issue but that is my interpretation.

  8. wasder permalink
    February 25, 2009 6:52 pm

    I would recommend everyone who is reading this thread to go the Brooklynian thread on the same topic and read what BoogieNights has to say.

  9. bknesto permalink
    February 25, 2009 9:22 pm

    He didn’t say shit but that my assumption may be right…An assumption I never made. Then he goes on to be a cheerleader for the school and how NOW parents will be seen picking up there kids, etc. It’s NOT about the school, it’s about the sentiment behind the statement that was made.

    Once again I guess ALL the parents that have been picking up there kids for years in this same location and surrounding areas for years can’t been seen.

  10. wasder permalink
    February 25, 2009 9:52 pm

    Exactly BK–he said that there may well be race or class based bias going on with the notion that this particular school is more worthy of police attention. I agree with you that there is no reason why this should be the case. Otherwise all Boogie nights said was that this is a diverse school with a sliding scale fee system, which should alleviate your fears that it is a school only for “privileged” children.

    I understand why what Brownstoner wrote irked you but at this point are you still suggesting that I am blind to the feelings of my neighbors?

  11. bknesto permalink
    February 25, 2009 10:31 pm

    I never said it was a priveleged school nor did I have any fear about it. ONCE again the SCHOOl isn’t the issue, I have NO problems w/ the school itself.
    I said it was a school for select amount of ppl in the hood on a certain socioeconomic scale. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

    Listen man I could run down 30 ppl that live within your 4 block radius that you don’t know. And trust me when I say they wouldn’t be in agreement with you about how presumably this school will bring so much to their community.

    Its another school among the many that have been here years. No matter what the cost kids are kids.

  12. wasder permalink
    February 25, 2009 10:41 pm

    RIght on. I am sure there are people who don’t give a rat’s ass about the school. In re the socio-economic factors, what about what BoogieKnight said about sliding fee scale etc? As I understand it, it is trying to be a school for all income levels. Anyway, I just feel weird that I am somehow on the opposite side of you on this. I won’t belabor the point any more but please understand that I don’t think this school deserves special police protection or anything like that. Schools are schools and I am personally excited about this one, but children are the most precious thing that there is in the world and all of them deserve a safe and happy place to be children. Peace again.

  13. February 26, 2009 5:14 am

    you are missing the whole point IT’S NOT ABOUT THE SCHOOL OR THE POLICE IT IS ABOUT THE POSTS AND ATTITUDES/FEELINGS UNDERNEATH AND RIGHT ON THE SURFACE FOR EVEN STEVIE WONDER TO SEE!!!! Get it now?

  14. wasder permalink
    February 26, 2009 6:28 am

    I guess I get it X, but they are not feelings or attitudes held by me. and it was about the police for BKnesto, at least according to the title of this thread.

  15. February 26, 2009 5:07 pm

    This is so sad. No you don’t get it. You just got checkmated and don’t even realize it! Let me spell it out for you; you brownstowner/brooklynian types flock to discussions about police and crime yet ignore discussions on the disparities of gentrification. Nesto was very clever with the title he chose it worked like cheese in a rat trap! You people ignore most of his posts but this time you are all in here having your own separate discussion and skirting the real issue at hand(as usual) but at least you are here this time! This is absolutely ridiculous and clearly shows how we are living in 2 separate universes on the same blocks. If you wonder why there are tensions in the hood just read these 3 threads a few more times til you get it! Its all right here plain as day

  16. wasder permalink
    February 26, 2009 5:16 pm

    Hey X—“You brownstoner types” is a pretty wide net to throw around people. I have come here to comment on stories on several occasions. Rather than be sarcastic at me why don’t you tell me what you consider to be the main issue at hand (this is a serious request). This is exactly the problem. Rather than saying exactly what you mean you are saying find it for yourself. I am a very reasonable person and if I am wrong or have been thoughtless I am man enough to own up to it. I don’t want to live in a neighborhood where there is a distrust and miscommunication between groups of people. I want to know everyone here. But I can’t read your mind, or that of nesto either. I get it that what Brownstoner wrote rubbed everyone the wrong way but to say I am skirting the issue without telling me what you think the issue is is not very productive. I would love to hear it even if it makes me look like a chump.

  17. February 26, 2009 5:29 pm

    The point is why are all the many parents and children that are all around the area(and on fulton st!) and have been forever invisible to some of you? Why do the existing and previous schools and daycares not warrant extra police but this one does? Why are some of you(yes including YOU wasder) up in here defending brownstoner and the school and trying to prove “how down you are in the hood” while skirting this very simple issue? This is tragicomedy at its finest(or worst)

  18. wasder permalink
    February 26, 2009 5:45 pm

    First of all, the school doesn’t need defending. It is an innocent bystander in all of this, just dragged into it because brownstoner chose to link it for some reason to the issue of police presence. I will say one more time I don’t know why that is the angle he chose but I am not a mind reader and will not ascribe to him motives that I don’t know to be true. Secondly, there is no way I could possibly defend myself against your accusation that some of my fellow residents of Clinton Hill are invisible to me. I haven’t lived here my whole life but I have been in Clinton Hill for 7 years now, long enough to make me feel like I have a pretty good understanding of what makes it tick. I will say it loud and clear one more time though—I feel like I have good relations with people of all walks of life, all colors and all backgrounds in this neighborhood. I don’t live in an enclave of my own making. I love this neighborhood for its diversity and heritage and if you don’t believe me there is nothing else I can do.

  19. February 26, 2009 6:14 pm

    Look wasder just the fact that you tried to defend brownstoner and keep trying to prove you’re not racist says everything about you

  20. saultee permalink
    February 26, 2009 10:22 pm

    damn, i feel invisible to both black and white people in the neighborhood.

    so what’s the solution bk? drop some knowledge on me.

  21. wasder permalink
    February 27, 2009 5:33 pm

    X—how did I defend anyone? I simply said I was not going to try to interpret what he meant because I don’t know what he meant. I will not assume any nefarious intent on his part but I also don’t agree with the way he framed the issue. You are remarkably un-nuanced in your thinking.

  22. February 27, 2009 10:53 pm

    “I know Jon a little and I don’t think that is what he meant ”

    if that ain’t trying to defend I don’t know what is now who’s the “un-nuanced ” one?

  23. wasder permalink
    March 1, 2009 3:33 pm

    You still are the un-nuanced one. “I don’t think that is what he meant” is hardly a defense. Its a statement that says I am not him and I don’t know what he meant. I know him to be generally a friendly pleasant person and therefore I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to ascribing negative motives to what he says.

    That being said, I think we all agree that this is just splitting hairs and the real issues are not being addressed if you and I are arguing about the semantics of what Brownstoner wrote. You are looking to pick fights and I really don’t want to oblige you.

  24. bknesto permalink
    March 1, 2009 7:52 pm

    It is about what he wrote & more impotantly the attitudes/feelings/sentiments behind not only what he wrote but the ppl whom he lives around. This isn’t the first time nor the last because its obvious that this guy & ppl like him hold a certain disdain for select many in the hood.

    So no you don’t get it…X & Upset Mom get it.

    Saultee, please don’t trivialize the situation. I referred to a commenter saying all of TWO schools will increase the flow of parents, kids, etc. on fulton street despite the fact that they are SEVERAL schools, sitters, daycares, & nurseries in the area that have existed for years…more than two have come and gone over the years.

    Have you ever been on fulton street or the area as a whole after school time? There’s a steady flow of parents and students flowing through the area, not to mention adults chaperoning groups of kids to the various after-school centers.

    It’s been this way for years so for someone to imply that a nursery & charter school will increase the visibilty of these actions is absurd to me. Unless the ppl doing the actions are invisible to you.

  25. wasder permalink
    March 2, 2009 4:39 pm

    The only other thing I will add to this is that its going to be a fairly large school and its presence will definitely be felt along Fulton and Putnam nearby (lots of cars dropping off kids, parents walking kids to school etc). Also, the school has a bunch of plans to greenify the area around the building, which is currently very barren, trash-strewn and without trees, so that will be noticed as well.

    Nesto, I think I do get it at this point. You are concerned that it seems like certain folks only notice people of their “kind” (for lack of a better word). I certainly am not naive enough to think that this doesn’t happen. Again, I respect what you do and understand why you wrote what you wrote. I look forward to continuing our dialogue on some other issues, now that this one (I would hope) has run its course. Peace.

  26. bknesto permalink
    March 2, 2009 6:54 pm

    Please stop it, ONE school will NOT have a NOTICEABLE increase in the parents seen bringing their kids back and forth to school. You proving my point…just stop it please, it’s done.

  27. March 2, 2009 7:29 pm

    This is beyond surreal what a damn shame

  28. March 2, 2009 8:23 pm

    wasder who do you think you are to proclaim that “this issue has run its course”?
    another clear example proving nest’s point!

  29. wasder permalink
    March 2, 2009 8:50 pm

    nesto–it will have a noticeable difference to me because I live on the same street as the school. When I post am only giving my perspective on things. Believe it or not this will have a big effect on street life in my little neck of the woods and that is positive to me. That is all I am saying.

    In re running its course X, since we are just going back and forth without changing each other’s perspective in the slightest this particular discussion seems to have run its course. I do look forward to revisiting this in September when the school is operational and seeing if anyone has a different perspective.

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